No Literal Israel, No Fulfillment literally speaking.

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angelaglass
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No Literal Israel, No Fulfillment literally speaking.

Post by angelaglass » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:13 am

Read with Revelation

Hi there,

I'm working through my questions,
and so after a quick survey via the 144,000 literal thread,
I've found no one who thinks that they are literal.

Thus I then venture that no one believes Israel is the literal fulfillment of prophecy,
because the 144,000 is the ultimate fulfillment, and ignoring that negates all that precedes.

So I'm looking for what I think must be even more rare.

Is there anyone here who believe Israel is still the fulfillment of prophecy and not Christendom?

If you believe they are, but don't believe in the literal 144,000, why not both literal interpretations?

Just so we are all talking the same kind of literal here, and not "everybody is a Jew" style, here is the literal literal literally.

You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means.

Using the same words to carry different meaning creates chaos, or 'babel', thus I'm trying to reduce my babbling by sticking to clear words. I'll explain the words I use, which are usually just the words from the text, the holy inspired scriptures.

Ironically the text doesn't say "read me literally" for it'd be redundant to express it:

Image

Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.42.09 AM.png

:dtt-sign:
DeborahsTree wrote:Hi Angela,

I believe the literal nation of Israel that exists today is by means of God's hand in the matter. Not sure if that's what you were addressing, if not, my apologies. :)

Deborah
leaving_quietly wrote:As for 144,000 being literal or not, I don't know what to think about that. I just don't know the answer. Since Revelation was given in signs, it's hard to say whether that was intended to be literal or not. If so, then what follows would also have to be literal, right? Virgin males, never deceitful, without blemish. And if they are the only ones who are part of the first resurrection, they would also have had to be "executed with the ax" (NWT, removes "with the ax", BTW.) (Rev 20:4).

However, regarding literal Israel, I take a different point of view. Romans 11 gives us a clue as to what purpose God has in mind for literal Israel since that chapter discusses the difference between literal Israel and the Gentiles and the ultimate outcome of literal Israel. A summary of that chapter says, to me, that mercy was extended to the Gentiles in order to make Israel jealous, seeing that they lost favor with God. God did NOT reject Israel, though. The whole purpose was to make them take notice of what was being extended to the Gentiles, realize their mistake, repent and have faith, and then they would be 'grafted back in'. I do believe that literal Israel, in some way, will return to God, but not to the exclusion of the Gentiles.

Think about who Jesus was talking to when he said these words:
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU. For I say to YOU, YOU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in YHWH’s name!’” - Matt 23:37-39
leaving_quietly wrote:As for 144,000 being literal or not, I don't know what to think about that. I just don't know the answer. Since Revelation was given in signs, it's hard to say whether that was intended to be literal or not. If so, then what follows would also have to be literal, right? Virgin males, never deceitful, without blemish. And if they are the only ones who are part of the first resurrection, they would also have had to be "executed with the ax" (NWT, removes "with the ax", BTW.) (Rev 20:4).
Totally agree. Bachelors, like Christ. Willing to "drink from the same cup". Martyrs.
leaving_quietly wrote:However, regarding literal Israel, I take a different point of view. Romans 11 gives us a clue as to what purpose God has in mind for literal Israel since that chapter discusses the difference between literal Israel and the Gentiles and the ultimate outcome of literal Israel. A summary of that chapter says, to me, that mercy was extended to the Gentiles in order to make Israel jealous, seeing that they lost favor with God. God did NOT reject Israel, though. The whole purpose was to make them take notice of what was being extended to the Gentiles, realize their mistake, repent and have faith, and then they would be 'grafted back in'. I do believe that literal Israel, in some way, will return to God, but not to the exclusion of the Gentiles.

Think about who Jesus was talking to when he said these words:
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU. For I say to YOU, YOU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in YHWH’s name!’” - Matt 23:37-39
I agree the nations were used to make Israel jealous, it's just not finished, but almost. Jews aren't jealous of Christians—they believe we're stupid for believing in Christ the 'crucified' as the Messiah.

The jealousy hits when the sky lights up.

That's another factor in how you demonstrate Israel being of the new covenant. (I see some try to explain those are "new converts" in the end.)

They ignite the ultimate jealously.
oneapart wrote:For anyone interested in The Word, The Truth, or The Words of The Truth, I'm planning a 'bible' study and would love to study with others.

See: http://bereanbible.com/blb/

And let me know if you're interested.

Love,
ag

See DiscussTheTruth.com for original thread.
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